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- Former President Trump said he “wouldn’t dispute” calling former Vice President Pence a “pussy.”
- The comment came as ABC’s Jonathan Karl asked Trump about his thinking early on January 6.
- Karl’s forthcoming book, “Betrayal,” chronicles the postelection period of the Trump presidency.
In the hours before the deadly January 6 insurrection, supporters of then-President Donald Trump, aggrieved over what they viewed as a “stolen” 2020 election, rallied in Washington, DC, with the commander-in-chief continuing to give credence to debunked election claims that were rejected in court.
With then-Vice President Mike Pence set to take the reigns in certifying the Electoral College results affirming now-President Joe Biden’s victory, Trump had been pressuring his No. 2 to overturn the election.
The New York Times reported in January that Trump went so far as to call Pence on January 6 as the then-vice president was leaving his residence to oversee the vote certification.
“You can either go down in history as a patriot,” Trump reportedly said, according to two people familiar with conversation, “or you can go down in history as a pussy.”
When ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl in a March 18 interview had asked Trump if the report was accurate, the former president didn’t dismiss the comments.
“I wouldn’t dispute it,” he told Karl.
Karl responded: “Really?”
The former president repeated his statement: “I wouldn’t dispute it.”
A larger picture of what transpired during the tumultuous postelection period is chronicled in Karl’s upcoming book, “Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show.”
Since the events of January, Trump has repeatedly teased a 2024 presidential run – which would put him on a collision course with the former vice president should both men decide to throw their hat in the ring.
The former president told Fox News in an interview this past summer that he had a “very good relationship” with Pence, but was “disappointed with Mike on one thing,” a subtle reference to the former vice president’s refusal to overturn the Electoral College certification.
In the interview with Karl, Trump continued with a similar theme – stating that Pence could have used his position to challenge the results and called his former vice president’s actions a “tragic mistake.”
“He could have – well, the people were very angry,” Trump said. “If you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress? How can you do that?”
When Karl pressed Trump about whether he’d still be in the White House had Pence blocked the certification, Trump felt as though that would be the case.
“I think we would have won, yeah,” he said.
However, the former president had less of an opinion on whether he could “forgive” Pence.
“I don’t know,” he said. “Because I picked him. I like him, I still like him, but I don’t know that I can forgive him.”
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